What would you like to see out of RSBandB?

Iron Maiden · **Posted:** August 13th, 2013, 11:11 pm

As one of the oldest remaining user of this forum, I honestly believe the reason behind the decline of RSBandB is the fact that your time is up.
That might not be a nice thing to hear but for myself, what I liked in the glory days was the community. I remember very cool and friendly users like Ranging God, Kyle, Alex, MQ...And people that made me laugh ALOT like The Haysta, The Killer and Connor.

RSBandB had its fair share of ******, but they weren't numerous enough to make want to leave. There were too many cool people. As a man who is clearly not afraid to speak his mind out loud, I had a whole collection of enemies here. I'm pretty sure oldies can remember seeing me flamming some users I have in mind right now, one too many time.
But that was just NOT enough to make me leave. Even though I ragequitted a couple of time.
That tells you how fantastic the people used to be.

The problem now is that these people have grown apart. In 2006-2007 (my early days) they were mostly teenagers in high school who had nothing better to do than playing RuneScape and posting on forums. That was like 7 years ago. Things change drasticly in 7 years.
These people are probably fully grown men/women who have their own appartment/house, their university degree and maybe children.
They can't be bothered to still play an incredibly *lame* game like RuneScape. And probably less about a fansite about that same *lame* game.
This is, and despite the high amount of non-rs discussion, for better or worse a RuneScape fansite. So in the end, the oldies won't come back here. They probably don't have time and they've likely forgot about you.

You've been great for over 9 years, that's fantastic. But there are two truths about life
1) Everybody lies
2)Everybody dies

Runescape will die someday. This forum aswell. It's inevitable. You've had your share of great moments and I keep excellent memories of my days on this place. But we might me close to doomsday.
If you want to bring up the activity, the target audience is probably the younger players. Who find interest in the current version of RuneScape.

And a section for 2007 Scape wouldn't be bad either. Thus, you could get members from either versions of the game. Most of veterans (like me) like the 2007 Scape for nostalgia purpose and they don't find anything appealing into the new RS3. So why would they want to join a forum purely made for it?

I know you guys probably don't like me much (probably because I was a flamming/rude-ass ***************) but no matter what...I'll be there 'till the very end. (y)

Adbot · **Posted:** August 13th, 2013, 11:11 pm

Evelyn · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 12:32 am

Well I've been around longer than you, and I can say that a website will last as long as the owners change and adapt. If RS is losing too many players and we don't get many new members, it may be time to expand to other games or at least provide more 07 support so the community stays alive. The decline of the RSBandB community is partially the fault of Jagex. Even though I like EoC and RS3 (finally no more click n watch combat), there are many many people who are militantly against these new additions. It's great that Jagex is trying to make the game more engaging and possibly challenging, but it has caused a big split in the RS community, and that trickles down to fansite communities as well. Small sites like us would have a greater impact. All the bashing and flaming also doesn't do the site any good. Like Jason said, if we had support for 07 RS, it would set us apart from other current RS fansites. If the old calculator code is still lying around, it could be a valuable resource for 07 players. If we'd like more members, it would be beneficial to expand into other games as well, maybe a Bits & Bytes gaming network sort of thing. We could expand on the PC gaming event so it's not on such a rigid schedule and the server could be left on so players could join and play whenever they'd like. The game could be rotated once a week or something, like one week the server is set to TF2 and people drop in and out for a little playtime. Then the next week it could be set to CS:GO and cycle through some popular maps or something.

Yes, I do miss the old members. We've all grown up and are old farts that vividly remember things from fifteen years ago. The problem here is that there aren't very many new members to replace us, and the active member count will fall.

We could let the site die, or we can change some things and stay alive for another nine years.

Iron Maiden · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 9:49 am

That's funny, because you're the first user I remembered the name. Mainly because of the avatar you had when I joined: The guy playing a game on PC (counterstrike?) and sees his door next to him shut violently.
You, and Deathmage411 because of ''Sexy As Hell'', were the most recognizable members for me.

Cliff Dude wrote:

If RS is losing too many players and we don't get many new members, it may be time to expand to other games or at least provide more 07 support so the community stays alive. The decline of the RSBandB community is partially the fault of Jagex. Even though I like EoC and RS3 (finally no more click n watch combat), there are many many people who are militantly against these new additions. It's great that Jagex is trying to make the game more engaging and possibly challenging, but it has caused a big split in the RS community, and that trickles down to fansite communities as well. Small sites like us would have a greater impact. All the bashing and flaming also doesn't do the site any good. Like Jason said, if we had support for 07 RS, it would set us apart from other current RS fansites.

I'm with you on this one. Having a 07 support is likely to attract some veterans in quest of nostalgia. Right now, I haven't seen a fansite with a 2007 section, so adding one would be a first and would totally sets you apart from the others. So much, that others won't have choice but to copy you and do the same.

I can hear a couple people saying ''But that's gonna divide the community apart''

Not to be mean but...Which community?
There'll always be division on forums. There will always be cliques. I remember the division between RS Related and Non-Rs Related.
Meaningless. Wanting to get rid of division is like wanting to get rid of War...It'll always exist because it is part of human interactions.

I'm sure there is a couple of people who are against 07 section because they think it won't bring up the activity.
Like when there were people against Sandbox's return (*cough*creepy*cough*)
It worked a bit because it was one of the most active section, however it didn't bring back much people like I thought it would.

Hey at least I tried. I suggested something to help the activity going up. That didn't work, so **** what?

Now I'm supporting the idea of 07 section. I think it's an excellent idea and I believe it could help bringing the activity up.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But it's better to give it a shot than to stay in a corner, arms crossed, waiting for midnight.

Shane · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 3:20 pm

I'd like to just chime in on a couple of things that have been mentioned.

First off the game servers. The game servers are almost always on and are likely to be up to date if it's the middle of the week seeing as PC gaming is on Tuesday. It's hard to keep them auto updated now after the changeover to steampipe. If anyone wants to play in one of our servers that's not updated send me a pm and I'll update it and launch it for you. On this note there's nothing stopping people in this community (Cliff Dude) from hosting their own PC Gaming events if they want to. If you want to host a Friday night HL2 meetup let us know and we'll make sure the server is turned on and the event is placed in the rotator at the bottom of the forums.

The current servers we can reliably run are Half Life 2 Deathmatch and TF2.

Also to those of you who mention a section for the 2007 version of the game. How many of you play the game actively? Once a week? Daily? The section could be created easily enough on the forums for discussion and whatnot but how many of you actually are there that would take advantage of it? Basically what I'm asking is if something like this was created, what's to prevent it from becoming inactive itself? I'm not convinced that 2007 is the magical fix as things in the past have been suggested to be magical fixes and didn't work.

Qwc · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 7:23 pm

I agree Shane, I don't think OSRS is a magical cure all for any RuneScape problems. I had fun with the 07 servers for about a month or two then I came back to EOC. But anyways, I think no matter what there will be a fixed amount of RuneScape players unless Jagex can entice more new players to play. Also, I don't think creating an 07 side to this website would make it better; it would make the website full of people who think Jagex should completely ditch RS3 all together.

Iron Maiden · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 8:22 pm

If you're looking for a magical fix, you're at the wrong adress. I don't have that to offer.

My point is the following: If you want as much newcomers as possible, you gotta have a fair amount of diversity in terms of discussion to attract the highest amount of different people as possible.
So you add the section, and promote it to attract the attention of veterans. Creating a '07 section in hope it will magicly attract people is NOT the right way to do it. You've got to promote it. Advertise it. For example:
Welcome to RSBandB, the only RuneScape Fansite with '07 support.

Non-RS Gaming was a great example. During a time, I remember it being on of the most active forum. Most people who play RuneScape often play other games. However, came the time where most of people were retired RS players, but they kept posting on the Non-RS Gaming section.
Because 1)the community was great and 2)it was a place where people felt like they belong here.

If a person doesn't play runescape, I don't think he will enjoy being on a runescape fan site.
Same would apply to a '07 scaper like myself. What's the point of being on a forum where the big part of discussion is about a game I don't play.
The reason I'm still here is because over time, this place kind of became like my home planet. You would never see me subscribe on any other Runescape fansite. I am NOT a RS3 player nor a fan of EoC. There is NO point in joining a such site for me.

But on the contrary, you're more likely to see me on a '07 fansite. Because I can share my activities with people who are doing the same things as I do and KNOW how it feels. For example, can a young RS3 player who never played in the early know what it's like to get 60 attack and weild your very first Dragon Longsword? Not really. But someone who's been there and done that, yes.

To answer your question, I play Runescape daily for the moment, just not as intensly as before. I can skip a day once and a while, aswell.
Saying I'll always play everyday and for a very long time in order to convice you to add the '07 section would be hypocrital from me.
I do NOT know for how long I'll play and I can't tell if I'll ever get bored and quit forever once again.
From nom, I'm enjoying the game since my recent membership, I feel like the early days again and it's very fun. Will this last? No. How long will it last? Can't tell.

You can't ask people if people will keep your section active because we don't know for how long we'll be playing. Well, that's for me.

Adbot · **Posted:** August 14th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Jasonmrc · **Posted:** August 15th, 2013, 10:47 am

Very well put, Iron Maiden.

Shane wrote:

Also to those of you who mention a section for the 2007 version of the game. How many of you play the game actively? Once a week? Daily? The section could be created easily enough on the forums for discussion and whatnot but how many of you actually are there that would take advantage of it? Basically what I'm asking is if something like this was created, what's to prevent it from becoming inactive itself? I'm not convinced that 2007 is the magical fix as things in the past have been suggested to be magical fixes and didn't work.

We've mentioned adding OSRS support, not a forum(or did I miss a post?) OSRS Calcs(Skill, Combat, Max hit), Signatures(the OSRS hiscores are public), ItemDB. I won't go into details about the ItemDB because you know those, Mike and Shane, but I believe we would have the largest DB for that era. Is it complete? No, but none are.

Here's one thing I think needs to be said and understood by all: There is no magic cure-all for anything.
Becoming a Platinum Fansite won't do it, becoming all OSRS won't do it, becoming Gaming Bits and Bytes won't do it. None of those alone can do it.
People go to websites because they either find something useful there, or like the community. That is basically it.
RSBandB was popular back in the day because we had ground-breaking calculators(if I remember correctly, our calculators used to be featured and used by RuneHQ) and because we had the best skill signatures(back in the day when 'Sigs' were one of 'the things' on RS Fansites). A great community grew up around these things because the forums weren't as big as other fansites and subsequently didn't have all the drama, flaming, and oppressive mods.

Oh, and a thought that just came to me, could you start publishing RU! on Youtube as well? In addition, not as a replacement of course. Most people go to Youtube for a ton of stuff. There are plenty of podcasts there without any actual video. Just use the RU! images or slide to a relevant picture when you're talking about it. The RU! Focuses would be good on there.

Back on topic, there is no magic snake oil. Restricting BnB to any single thing probably isn't going to cut it anymore unless we come in on the ground level of a new hot game and get lots of comprehensive content before its release. Why do I say this? Because let's face it, every established game already has an established "Go-to" fansite or other info resource. The chances of anyone playing a mainstream game and googling to find something is pretty low. Most people ask in-game and are then given the info or directed to the right place.

Or maybe BnB should just focus more on being a nice place for Techies and Gamers to chillax. Most of us are casual gamers. We used to be hardcore but have grown up and between School/job/life don't have the time for much more than a nice casual perusal of our favorite forums or playing a few quests/missions in our favorite game.

Iron Maiden · **Posted:** August 15th, 2013, 11:02 am

Thanks Jason! Wow, your writing skills are truly impressive, you really do know how to formulate an idea in a very clear way!

Back in the early days, RSBandB was known for their calculators, for their stats sigs.

The Haysta once said:

Quote:

Welcome to rsbandb. The only RuneScape fansite where the graphics don't suck.

This forum had an incredible quantity of strongly talented graphic artists such as: Anubis, Slimppu (did I spell his name wrong?), Flipvlug, Chief Snake and many more. We had the very popular SOTW and every week the competition was so strong. So strong that I've never managed to gain a single win.
Eventually, people have stopped caring and SOTW got removed.
Same for Design Crew.

The Fake Section was also a very popular place. It was THE thing that got me to register on this website (thanks to Alex 43 and Karl 67)
Eventually, it got removed due to inactivity.

All the things that made RSBandB a hit in the first place aren't there anymore. They were deleted because the people who contributed to it moved on and there were nobody to carry on the legacy.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** August 15th, 2013, 12:08 pm

Oh it's all so serious in here.

Just keep doing what you want to do. You two have never chased after huge numbers of users. The whole reason you dropped HQ was cause you wanted to do your own thing. You've never been after turning a profit like certain other websites. It's always been a hobby from where I'm standing.

So make it into whatever you want. You're asking the wrong people if you want to know whats wrong cause all these people are already using the site. Just make what interests you if other people think it's cool they'll come. If not they'll all **** off. I'll still be here don't worry.

Just don't turn it into a my little pony fansite.

Mike · **Posted:** August 17th, 2013, 6:39 pm

The amount this community has went down in activity is far larger than the decline in the RuneScape community. We are asking you because you are our current members and we'd like to keep you around. Also, if we have a group of people who like what we have here, chances are more people would join as well.

We don't have many new members to ask. Aside from the very rare few who do stick around, most new members never come back. Here are two recent examples (one, two). Maybe a bit soon for those to be examples, but the point still stands. I know it's to be expected that most people who register will never post, cause that's how all communities work, but when many people over the years register and commit to making a welcoming post, and then never even visit again, isn't that a bit weird? I've tried emailing some people who make a welcoming post and then never visit again in the past and I've never gotten a reply. It is a bit strange for an owner of a site to email basically asking why you don't like the site. I don't do that anymore, but I am genuinely curious.

For 07 support, I have been working on a high scores update since shortly before 07 was released. I should have had it done long ago; I haven't been working on it as much as I'd like. It's not done yet but I'm working to strip it down to have it out next week for the divination update to at least duplicate the current high scores feature set along with 07 support (Edit: Front-end of HS has been delayed). With this, I'll add 07 selections to the calculators and 07 signatures because their updating system will be tied into the community high scores. The current calculators are basically still 07 calculators and I have planned to bring back an old version of the equipment/maxhit calc.

Negativity? I'm not sure what we can do about that. Is there really that many negative people here that it's driving people away? What do you suggest we do about it? I find everyone here to be pretty nice. There are a few negative opinions sometimes, but do we warn for opinions? We always remove flaming or anything that would be against RS rules. Do we really need stricter rules for such a small community?

Uncle Dano · **12 99's on 12/12/12!**

If you look at the bigger picture, the players that were all playing in 2008 or so are now moving on to other things in their real lives. Yes, the player base has dropped in numbers and participation in the game as well as on fan sites has decreased a bit. But, I personally believe that it isn't that people don't like the site or the game anymore, its just that they may be spending more time doing other things in real life now and they can't devote the same time to participating in RS activities as much now. High school students moving onto to college or university, university students moving on to their careers, personal lives changing as you grow up (finding someone to marry perhaps?), etc. The player base is growing up and moving on. I myself have found that regular life hasn't changed too much, but things come up that cause me to have less time available to play, or to interact on the fansite. Stuff happens. And, its not something that you can really control too much.

As far as new players coming into the game, I'd say let RS3 take hold a bit and get the bugs worked out. Let the HTML5 version come out and be the preferred platform. Then RS I think will gain a resurgence within the gaming community, and this will see players come back that have left and attract new players.

The only thing that I would suggest might help bring the community together more is perhaps some more in-game events. Those were a lot of fun.

Qwc · **Posted:** August 18th, 2013, 3:30 pm

In-game events would be fun. I second that. (Bossing would be cool

)

Killjoy · **Posted:** August 28th, 2013, 6:20 pm

Okay. Here is a question. I found the site via the Podcast and I know many others did as well.. How are the podcast's numbers holding up?

Lord Rickles · **Posted:** August 30th, 2013, 3:26 am

Killjoy is right. I'm sure there's many of us that found out about RSB&B via the podcast. I had heard of RSB&B before, but I never ready found out about it.

If you asked me what the largest draw of this fansite is, it's the podcast. There is no better and there certainly isn't one with the tenure that RSB&B has. When you look to grow, you stick with your greatest asset (what has the most reach) and look to use it to improve overall. The podcast has to be the backbone, because IT IS. The only way the community as a whole can grow is to plug the hell out of what the website and forums have to offer on the podcast. Drop little plugs everywhere. Talk about discussions from the forums on the show. Talk about cool things on Runewire. Talk about the calculators. And always add "If you want to check it out and participate, visit RSB&B's [whatever]. It's not shameful. It's not a bad thing. Every podcast that isn't self sufficient is backed and funded by something, and Update! is by RSB&B. Always tout the website and features whenever possible.

Local News Channels are a great way to see how to improve plugging, because they do it constantly. "Now with Chicago's most accurate forecast, we go to Gale Storm for our weather" "#1 in late breaking news" "first on the scene" They always say something at nearly every segway. Update! is the longest running Runescape podcast - period. Be proud of that! That should be the first thing said after "Hello and welcome to another episode of RSB&B Update!". There are lots of fansites, we all know that. None of them do a regular, longstanding podcast, however. That is OUR claim to fame, that's OUR honor ('our' used collectively, of course). You look at RuneRadio, which is a great site and does a lot of Youtube videos and of course have their RuneRadio station. They also tell you that you're listening to it after every song. RSB&B's media outlet is the podcast. Utilize it to the fullest! Build RSB&B's 'brand' through it.

If you truely want growth, you have to keep RSB&B in people's minds. I'm sure 90% of the listeners of the podcast probably never use the website or visit the forums. That's a major problem and why you don't see or get better support in promotions and contests. We're all the same 20 people here on the forums. We get some new people now and then, and then they leave. Long time members are necessary, but retaining or at least cycling new users is a must and important to active participation - and you have to do that by having RSB&B out there more. Having a Facebook page would be nice. Youtube videos, even short little blurbs, are awesome. I know you guys put the podcasts on Youtube for a while, but I'm not going to visit your channel to listen to it when I have other ways. Supplemental things to Focus segments and the new series is great. Having helpful things like that are great. In game wise, meetups are great, but more importantly is having the podcast staff in the clan chat and participating. Ask for questions for the next podcast, talk to people about stuff on the forums, start a conversation about something on Runewire. It's all important to keep people visiting and checking up on the site, and it can be done without feeling forced.

Some people brought up different staff possitions that I guess used to exist and don't anymore. There's a way of doing it without having to make up all these teams with overbearing mission statements and objectives. Take "Earth and the Informers" for example. Right now, I write an article every month. I guess I'm like "staff", but really I'm not. If I take the time to write an article just for this website, I want it to be enjoyed and read as much as possible. The admins can help by plugging Informer everywhere and posting on them, which in turn makes me feel good and feel like what I do is important. Make me feel like I'm more than just a freelance writer, and I'll do all I can to promote everything RSB&B. This can be done in moderation or it can be something more, it's up to the admins how they'd want to do it, but speaking for myself, if the little guys like me were maybe looked upon as a cog to what makes up a great aspect of this site, I'd feel like a part of something bigger and help out where ever I could.
(PS - Can Informer Writers please be grouped on the forums as such? I don't write for a "newspaper" as those are so dead and gone)

Shane · **Posted:** August 30th, 2013, 2:30 pm

We've already started to incorporate some of these ideas into the weekly show. I'd also like to point out that even though the topic asks for questions each week, the question can be asking us to discuss something in particular. If anyone wants something specific brought up by all means post it in a question.

With regards to the numbers, they have stayed relatively the same over time, of course there's no way to tell if a download equates to a listen.

Our newest thing is Supplemental and will happen whenever something comes out in which we can share technical knowledge of. That's the plan at least but it could potentially turn into a teaser of one of the hosts opinions on the weeks update. Then of course you'd get the full discussion on the week end show.